There is one author whom I have read that made me actually consider the pastoral vocation (though a calling would be necessary): Eugene Peterson. I say this and I have not even read that much, but what I have read and seen has impressed me. This month his memoir will be released (Zondervan.com; Amazon.com). I know many people are excited about this (such as Jeff Garner, Josh Smith and Mark Stevens). This is because, for many, Peterson is the “pastor’s pastor”.
I know there are others whom many consider the “pastor’s pastor”. Some candidates would be Bill Hybels, John Piper, John MacArthur, Rick Warren, T.D. Jakes, or Tim Keller. I am sure there are many others.
Who do you consider to be the “pastor’s pastor”? Who would you say challenges you to be a better pastor if you are already one? If you are not a pastor, who makes you want to be one or who would make you want to be one?
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Also, do not forget to tell us about your pastor. You will be entered to win Peterson’s new memoir. Go here.
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From the list of names you’ve given, and as I’ve stated in a recent post of mine, it will be John Piper.
I am with you Brian – Peterson is definitely the pastors pastor – he is not out to push any particular theology or agenda other than to help people be better pastors. And I think you could be a god one someday – it’s all a process my friend – I have still yet to enter but I will.
@T.C.: I will need to find that post. I don’t remember seeing it.
@Brian F.: Well, Jesus is Lord, so if he wants me to pastor, that I’ll do. Thanks for the vote of confidence! 🙂
I think there are a mixture of guys who inspire me to be a pastor and the first one may make you gasp: Mark Driscoll (I disagree with the content of his preaching, but he’s really good at public speaking), Danny O’Neil (my own pastor), Timothy Keller, Tony Overstake (my college pastor), Donald Miller (strange, I know, but he’s got a natural ability to relate to people that I think is essential for a pastor), N.T. Wright (again, strange, but the way he articulates things encourages one’s education in the faith and yet remains of the faith), and the Apostle Paul – his letters simply make me want to care and serve the people around me. But yeah, that’s about it I think.
@Jeremy: The Apostle Paul would be a pastor par excellence, except that he was always short term since his primary calling was as an apostle. But I do think pastor-theologians have an edge in reading Paul that some scholars do not. When pastors read Paul they do so while sharing his common pastoral concerns. This provides great insight.
I was a little surprised by Driscoll. I didn’t see you saying that one! Keller is great (though Mark Stevens may have something to say about that). Wright is great.
As much as I’m indebted to Wright, he wouldn’t fit the bill as a pastor’s pastor. I consider a pastor as someone with a flock and so on. Well, someone might comeback and say, he served as Bishop of Durham. Still doesn’t cut it for me. 😉
@T.C.: This may be true. Jeremy seemed to be including people who have influenced him so that he may be like them a bit if he pastored (for various reasons), e.g. Don Miller. While Wright would influence me, like you, I don’t know if he’d be a pastor’s pastor or not. I am not familiar enough with how his office functioned.
Since I am sort of semi-retired, at least as an Anglican priest, my choice would be men that are personal and before the Lord, and that no one now would much know. But, if I had to pick one, it might be P.T. Forsyth..he really was besides a profound scholar-theolog, a director of souls. Sort of a lost art in many of today’s preacher/pastors. He wrote some fine books on prayer, the pastoral, and even preaching. But he was also a holy man with a fine intellect, a rare combination it seems more so today.
As Izaak Walton said of of his friend and pastor John Donne: ‘That body once a temple of the Holy Ghost, and is now become a small quanity of Christian dust. But I shall see it reanimated.’ Again in the words of another, ‘true pastors are pathologists of the soul’. I am remembering mine, and thankful!
Fr. Robert: I have read one of Forsyth’s books on prayer. It was great.
I agree that Peterson would be the Pastors Pastor to me. As well as my pastor back in Maine, Clayton Blackstone (he introduced me to Peterson as well as many other things.). Both inspire me to try and balance knowledge with action and love when I do enter the ministry.
I’d have to agree with Fr. Robert on this one. It’s those nameless, faceless pastors serving in obscurity day in and day out that inspire me, especially church planters and those who lean toward equipping their people to be the church more than calling their people to go to church.
I’m surprised to see T.D. Jakes mentioned, since he is a self-proclaimed modalist.
Besides that, I would say my Dad; who is now retired from the pastorate (Conservative Baptist). But he was old school (even when he was young 😉 ). He stuck to the Text (even when doing topical preaching), he was/is an Evangelist (which shaped the churches he pastored, for the good), he was a church planter, and he was really gifted at (and I don’t even think they call it this anymore — because I don’t think they even really do it anymore) at being a pastor of Visitation (going to shut-ins and just anyone in the church who wanted to be visited and encouraged right at their homes).
I was part of Calvary Chapel for awhile (actually am attending one in Portland/Milwaukee right now), and attended Calvary Costa Mesa; I would say Chuck Smith has a really really good “Pastor’s heart” (he’s not a theologian, per se), and models what the compassion of Christ looks like. And then a guy named David Hocking, who’s been around for years; he’s in your face with the Word kind of guy (but I like him) — in other words, he preaches/teaches the Word with passion (like it should be).
Anyway, my two cents . . .
@Joshua: Clayton seems like he was a great pastor. Jeff is that person for me.
@Tom: Indeed, the unknown and under appreciated are models of pastoral service.
@Bobby: Jakes was mentioned because he is popular and for better or worse there are many pastors who want to be like him. On the other note, your Dad sounds like a great man and I imagine Chuck Smith must be a “pastor’s pastor” being that it seems many pastors have benefited from his ministry.
@Brian,
On Jakes, I know, unfortunately you’re right 😦 . My Dad is a great man! And Chuck is definitely a consistent man of God!
None of these men, Bill Hybels, John Piper, John MacArthur, Rick Warren, T.D. Jakes, or Tim Keller, are pastors. They are celebrities.
Peterson (Obviously)
Karl Barth
Jim West (Beleive it or not I see a different side than most.)
I like Hybels and met him once. But I wouldn’t call him a pastor. I like Keller’s stuff but again, not what I would call a pastor. Of all the mega church guys I would say Piper is the one that is closest to what I think a teacher /pastor should be.
@Bobby: I guess I could have thrown Joyce Meyer and Joel Osteen in there as well! 🙂
@Mark: Do you see the pastor-teacher who does not do a lot of direct shepherding (e.g. Piper) as a legitimate “type” of pastor? Would you see them as having a role more like a “bishop” in later church history or even a piece of what the apostles did before that?
@Brian, I know I sound negative but I just don’t see how celebrities (not always bad) can be pastors. It doesn’t mean they are not pastoral. Maybe you are right, maybe there is a place for such pastor/teachers.
Hmmmm….(Mark walks off and continues his half baked musings on the nature of ministry)
@Mark: I am sympathetic to your view. I think there are too many pastors seeking invitations to speak at conferences in our world today. That being said, I am slow to say there shouldn’t be any of these leaders amongst leaders like a Piper or a Keller. The Apostle Paul comes to mind and even more so the Apostle Peter since he seems to have been popular amongst the Jerusalem elite and the Gentiles (save that incident where Paul had to tell him off).
Of course, they were apostles, but later people like Athanasius and Augustine have greatly blessed the church for generations and I assume many may see them as a sort of pastor’s pastor (i.e. a Bishop).
What about Benny Hinn? This might qualify him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=u9SS95q2kpg 😉
Sorry, don’t want to derail . . .
Maybe that is where I need to say what I said about Piper. He seems like a pastors pastor. I like the way he goes about preaching and teaching (even if I disagree).
But Warren and Hybels etc are not even in his league.
@Bobby: I think that is the greatest Benny Hinn video in the world right now.
@Mark: I can see the qualitative difference between Piper/Keller and Warren/Hybels. Would you say it is in the area of teaching and setting for doctrine, or more than that?
Yeah, pretty funny!
@Brian – Yeah I think that is a good description. Maybe one can shepherd a large group. I dunno, I am wandering here and there at the moment on the issue.
the shepherding of the large group as I see it would be limited to Sunday preaching and that’s about it, maybe writing books.
@Mark and Brian : Do you see churches combining these two types of shepherds in a healthy, pragmatic way?
Brian, I have no choice but to say yes. perhaps the preaching pastor should be seen as a teacher and the pastoral care pastor as pastor?
@Brian: That may make a healthy designation. I think some churches like Mars Hill Bible Church have done such a thing (Rob Bell is not the “lead” pastor, but the “teaching” pastor). Maybe Mars Hill Seattle has done that as well. It seems that the problem isn’t the leadership structure. That may be a good model of leadership. The problem is the size of the churches.