After relocating to St. Louis, MO, I met up with a Southern Baptist leader in the state convention. We had a pleasant exchange. But I was asked if I drink alcohol of any kind. My reply, “Yes, I enjoy a glass of wine every now and then.”
Then the Southern Baptist leader told me that to be a Southern Baptist in Missouri, I will have to give up all forms of alcohol.
I told my wife that I will have to give up wine to be a Southern Baptist in Missouri.
To be honest, Romans 14:21 came to mind, as some kind of justification, to honor the Southern Baptists in Missouri. But I figure Paul wasn’t talking about Southern Baptists in Missouri.
Being Non-denominational never seemed more appealing!
But I’ve resisted the temptation thus far and decided rather to be just Baptist in the “Show Me State.”
So in the immortal words of Martin Luther:
I cannot and will not recant anything, for to go against
conscience is neither right nor safe. Here I stand, I can do no other, so help me God. Amen
I must have that glass of wine.
the archives near Emmaus 
Welcome to the Show Me State. For some reason, SBs have elevated drinking a glass of wine to the status of the 11th Commandment. People like that usually don’t ask whether or not you eat fatty foods, backbite, or gossip (all of which are elevated to a sport in SB circles) . But don’t have a glass of wine with dinner. I think the reason is, in their mind, wine in the Bible is just grape juice, even though it surly fermented prior to the pasturization process. While I’m sure not all SBs think this way, the herd mentality and the need to belong to the group both cause this to be the norm.
John, interesting when you start exploring the inconsistencies and the very nature of this wine objection. These objections often reveal failures in our interpretations and applications of the text.
At any rate, thanks for the welcome. 😉
I wonder if that means that even in the privacy of one’s own home one would need to refrain from all forms of alcohol.
JohnDave, no alcohol period. That is the impression I got.
I’d struggle to remain in a group like this because I am paranoid when people feel comfortable informing what I can and cannot do with the small details of my life. To submit to controlling types like this gives them a hunger for ever more power and control.
The lead pastor of the independent Baptist church that my wife and I are members of gave a sermon several years ago in which he explored three Christian viewpoints on consumption of alcohol: 1) prohibitionist – all drinking is a sin and alcohol is evil (Eph 5:18, Prov 20:1, Prov 23:29-35), 2) moderationist – drinking is not a sin and Christian conscience must guide each person (Psalm 104:14-15, John 2:1-11, 1 Tim 5:23, Matt 11:19), and 3) absentionist – drinking is not sinful but choosing to avoid it is the wisest choice (1 Thess 5:22, Matt 5:13-16, 1 Cor 3:16-17).. He concluded that all three positions contain truth, and that he was theologically a moderationist and practically an absentionist. I admired him for having the courage to preach that sermon to a congregation that had to include many absentionists (we are Baptists after all). I myself am a moderationist. I believe that getting drunk is a sin, but occasionally having a glass of wine or a beer with a meal is prohibited anywhere in the Bible.
This is interesting because you got folks such as DA Carson who link arms with big SB figures in their coalition such as Al Mohler and I’ve heard Carson say in a sermon that if someone said one must not drink in order to be a Christian, he would be the first to say, “pass the beaujolais.” And I know Carson doesn’t speak for Southern Baptists, but I think it is an interesting dynamic nonetheless.
I’m curious, does SB enforce different rules in different states?
Make that “but occasionally having a glass of wine or a beer with a meal is NOT prohibited anywhere in the Bible.”
@Brian, exactly how I felt. A touch of legalism, if you will. Perhaps my label is too strong.
@Paul, your pastor may have misused those texts to prove that drinking is sin. Those texts do not say such. Reconsider them.
@Mike, I had no problem in California drinking my wine. But I think it unfair to draw an Al Mohler in this Missouri dispute. Missouri Southern Baptists do not speak for all SBs.
@TC, I think my pastor was just trying to present the Prohibitionist viewpoint, not trying to prove that drinking is sin (a position which he doesn’t subscribe to anyway).
@Paul, thanks for the clarification. Now we can have that drink together. 😉
But Paul adviced Timothy to drink some wine? “No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments”. — 1 Tim 5:23
SBs do not believe in women preaching, but their online degree program (Liberty Univ.) welcomes woman candidates for Master/Ph.D of ministry. Maybe the tide is turning?
@A_Seed, Liberty is not really considered Southern Baptist, though it is somewhat affiliated.
TC –
I grew up in Memphis where the state recognised church was, and still normally is, the Southern Baptist Convention. I know the experience.
For me, it’s funny justifying ‘moderation’, and all other views, as I think people forget to put forth the better option – CELEBRATION – which the Scripture highlights. Not drunkenness, but celebration!
I love this passage:
And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, when the LORD your God blesses you, because the place is too far from you, which the LORD your God chooses, to set his name there, then you shall turn it into money and bind up the money in your hand and go to the place that the LORD your God chooses and spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household. (Deut 14:24-26)
I think, though one might want to argue that wine is grape juice (which we all recognise as silly conjecture), one cannot get around what strong drink refers to in this passage. And, again, it’s in the midst of celebration. And consider the wedding at Cana. These people had already had a good amount of wine and Jesus busts out another 150 gallons or so of wine (maybe a pointer to the celebration at the beginning of the full new creation). It’s all about CELEBRATION, which we are not that good at. Quiet times underline our Christian status today. Celebration was a major factor in Hebrew-Jewish life.
Sometimes, or most times, we are more boring than our God. I am by no means some rebellious punk saying nothing matters on this issue and we should do as we please without thoughtful reflection. But, at times, the word moderation seems to come from a desire to actually bridle what God desires rather than embracing the full text’s teaching.
Also, we cannot forget that varying people have varying definitions on what drunkenness actually is.
Instead of coming up with a great Biblical argument for drinking, I am simply going to give you a pragmatic solution. Come join us Presbos…we drink more than just every now and then, but, of course, without getting drunk. (I was ordained in the SBC a long time ago, but ended up leaving for theological, not alcological, reasons. Although the latter was a nice perk).
@TC: It was not an overstatement. Legalism is the right word.
@Scott, I never knew that Deuteronomy passage existed. 😀
Of course, Scripture forbids drunkenness.
@Brian G, yeah, I know you Presbos love to drink. 😀
I’ll see where the Lord leads on this.
You moved to Missouri? Wow–hope you and your family do well adjusting! As for alcohol, I’ve long abandoned the total-prohibition stance, now understanding that alcohol, when enjoyed properly, is a good thing. I don’t drink (seminary reasons), but I may just have some wine when I finish.
OK…after Jason’s post I’m now wondering if it one is required to hide their face behind a book to post on Near Emmaus (LePort, TC, etc). I feel rather naked standing next to Hadrian.
Yes, Brian G, you will be required at some point! 😉 I took this picture several years ago and it has clearly been an inspiration for many! 🙂
Jason, yeah, a relocation and still trying to adjust to the ways of Missouri.
Good for you on the alcohol deal. Yeah, there are times I wouldn’t touch the thing. 😉
No Alcohol! That is the SBC’s viewpoint, but not all Southern Baptist. Many churches allow for moderationism. Since every Baptist churches is autonomous the SBC can’t dictate to them how to run their church. The individual church may agree with most of the SBC’s doctrines, but disagree on others. The Southern Baptist Churchs are not owned by the SBC the way a Catholic Church is owned by an Archdioses. The churches are not all run by fundamenalist Southern Baptist. Think of it like the Republican Party, not every Republican is an extreme conservative like say Rush L. Many are Moderate Republicans.