I heard Micah Bournes for the first time at The Justice Conference this year. He is an amazing artist. Kurt Willems (HT) pointed out this (newest) spoken-word piece that is very potent and challenging. I hope you will listen (lyrics posted below):
A wise man once said to me “the more I study history the harder it is to be a patriot.
America the beautiful, built on biblical principles, and the backs of slaves. Manifesting our destiny from New England to the California coast, desecrating most Native civilizations that got in our way.
Now don’t get me wrong, I’m no Afro-centric conspiracy theorist with a slavery chip on my back, in fact, I’m proud to be an American. I love running water and Mickey D’s, religious freedom and democracy, but recently I’ve asked myself, “what does it mean to be free?”
As citizens of the U.S., liberty is engrained in our constitution and DNA, but if your freedom is married to your American rights, will you still be free when America dies?
And America will die.
No, I’m no prophet predicting the future, I’m a historian observing the past. From Egypt to Babylon, the Greeks to the Romans, in their moment, they felt invincible, little did they know, their cities would burn, their temples would erode, and their coliseums would crumble with a roar as loud as that of the crowds which filled them before they fell to the ground.
The globe continued to roll.
A new empire rose, then fell, passing the torch to the next generation of fools convinced they would eternally rule. So what makes us think we’re the exception?
Now let me repeat my question.
If your freedom is married to your American rights, will you still be free when America dies? What does it mean to be free? Bondage is a spiritual state, not just physical chains. Realistically most Americans are still enslaved. Mastered by their own desires, aspiring merely to aspire higher, driven by their insatiable appetite for material wealth and physical pleasure, wondering whether their labor will ever end, slaves in need of liberation.
In need of a freedom like Silas and Paul, fastened in stocks to a Roman prison wall, yet feeling so free they sang hymns to their liberator. For our freedom is greater than shackles. If ever America is tackled by a foreign kingdom, and U.S. citizens are enslaved or imprisoned, I will still have freedom. Freedom that is true, having nothing to do with a bill of rights or a politician. The Declaration of 1776 did not ensure my independence, nor did Lincoln’s proclamation bring my people emancipation, true liberation comes only by salvation. Salvation comes only by faith in Christ.
Until you believe that the Son of God died and resurrected so you could be free from your sin, you will never know liberation.
And if you believe that the Son of God died and resurrected so you could be free from your sin, no prison cell or ball and chain can ever take your freedom away. For he who is called in the Lord [while] a slave is the Lord’s freedman.
Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. For if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.
So this year as we cheer for our moment in time, watching millions of dollars explode in the sky, I pray you consider this question of mine, will you still be free when America Dies?
– Micah Bournes
The US enslaved by a foreign entity; curios prospect – I can imagine Canadians marching south, assisted by British allies, razing Washington, burning down the capital building.
Embarrassed, Americans white-wash it so people don’t know their seat of government has been compromised.
Hey, that sounds suspiciously famaliar. Didn’t that already happen? Are you yanks along with Canadian neighbors currently celebrating the last time a foreign entity invaded main-land US in ‘War of 1812′ celebrations?
What if the next time the Canadians invade they don’t give back the land they take – it will toques, toboggans, and Maple Syrup everywhere. Come to think of that invasion may have already started; aren’ Canadians already over represented in Hollywood, and I understand half of the population of Florida might be Canuks.
I think you Americans had better start resisting this foreign threat before its too late or it’s poutine for all!
Whenever I read something like this I feel very sad and repentant, but then I think, Of what? What am I supposed to do with the information that America was built on the back of slaves and the slaughter of Native Americans? Be sensitive? I guess. But what else?
I know the song is really about putting our faith in the salvation of Jesus Christ, but the song brings up this communal guilt. What do I do besides say, Yeah, that was bad?
K
I think that part of this spoken-word is quite secondary. Micah isn’t trying to induce guilt, but realism–the reality that our description of ourselves as a “Christian nations” doesn’t hold up historically (or currently). That said there remains great injustices toward the Black and Native communities in this nation. I don’t need to rehash how systematic injustices make life much harder on a young black person or a young native person than on someone like myself. So we may not be able to repair the past, but there is plenty of reconciling to do in the present.
I also think that the ‘realism’ that Micah iterates serves as a corrective for many an American Right Conservative Evangelical; a corrective on the order of injecting realism into the notion that America is a, or was a Christian Nation in its founding. The further question Micah’s words ought prompt is what “kind” of “Christian” nation was America in its founding? What kind of Christianity, in the sense, of; was it actually a Christ conditioned biblically formed Christianity? Or, was it a Christianity that was founded on Naturalist/Enlightement principles? You know, the kind that are “Self-evident.”
Bobby
Very good point, the Americana-Christianity hybrid is more of a “natural religion” than one of revelation.
White guilt is kind of myopic. I mean American slavey was built off of the Spanish empire more than it was American guilt; remember that country just north of Africa, that enherited that great Roman tradition of enslaving others. Or how about that Spanish/Roman slavery was built off of Africa’s own healthy slave industry where blacks sold blacks into slavery because they weren’t of the same tribe?
Bah! Let’s not let historical fact get in the way of some good old liberal white guilt. It doesn’t even matter that southern slavery was invented in Spain, imported to America, and inherited by America through Spain’s collapse, it doesn’t even matter that American blacks don’t blame the Hispanics (as Spain’s remnant in North America), or that Hispanics share there fair portion of guilt.
The only thing that matters is that it took English Americans a century or so before they realized what they had inherited from the Spanish maybe wasn’t so good morally, and another century and a half for revisionist history to kick in transferring all guilt to these English late comers.
My hope is that Americans won’t wake up to their own history. Liberal guilt is fun to watch, especially with Hispanics getting none of the blame.
Andrew
I am not advocating “white guilt.” I am saying that we ought to be aware of the ongoing consequences of history and be willing to show love to our neighbor and seek reconciliation. If that bothers you then maybe you should spend some time being introspective and asking, “why?”
Also, I should note (again) that Micah makes is simple: America has done some terrible things, so let’s not pretend that it is a holy, pure “chosen” nation. It is another nation like every other. It has done much good and much bad, but it is far from one and the same with “the Kingdom of God.” That is his point.
@Andrew T – maybe I’m missing something here – but who cares who is most to blame or who started it? If you colluded with wrongdoing, if you participated in it in some way, if you are benefiting from the the wrong, if you did nothing to stop it when you could then you are a participant and no amount of pretending otherwise will wipe that participation away. So, yes, that does mean I am part of the problem because sometimes I buy cheap goods probably made in sweat shops that wreck the health of little kids and I didn’t get to know the prostitutes who hang around the stations when I lived in the city when they probably just needed a friend and I have sat in magnificent buildings built with the blood money of my country and felt it my right and I didn’t think about that aspect of the beauty I took for granted ….oh there is a lot of oppression I have been part of, benefited from or done nothing to alleviate.
And I have a history degree so maybe I do know a little about my history but I also have a law degree and dirty hands are dirty hands no matter how much you wash them.
Ali
Well said, sometimes we submit to the lie that we are purely “individuals” and we deny our participation in systemic evils. We are never free from the system and we should be aware of this.
Brian, the human condition is fallen. Americans are no different. All man is in need of redemption, without respect to nationality or civic allegiance.
If that’s your point – I agree.
Ali, I have never owned a slave, or to my knowledge benefited from it. Have you?
I have benefited. For years and years people with my skin color owned business, made money, invested, held political office, created the laws of my land, and so forth and so on. Even after people with black and brown skin were given these rights they were behind a few hundred years in the participation of our democracy and many people with my skin color wouldn’t give them a loan to buy a home, created groups to harass and inflict violence against them, didn’t hire them, didn’t give them a chance at political office, limited them in their education opportunities, and so forth and so on. So as a white person do I benefit from all this. You betcha!
It is not “white guilt” to be a realist about our society and the privileges received because of history’s injustices. It is not “white guilt” to work for a society where others can share the same opportunities with me. It is not “white guilt” to admit that people of color have not been treated fairly in my country. It is not “white guilt” to admit that American policies toward Blacks, Latinos, and Asians has been unjust. It is realism.
But (again, again) this is not Micah’s point. He has a different focus.
I think it’s an important little piece of work myself. I agree he isn’t trying to induce collective guilt, he’s simply pointing out the USA is no more morally pristeen that 1000 other people groups and Christ should be our focus, not nationalism.
It’s a historical problem I believe began when the pilgrims got here and John Winthrop used the term for the new world , “the shining city on a hill” like Reagan did 300 years later. That’s Christ’s Church, not a national entity and I can vouch for the fact that some Americans think as Winthrop did because I used to.
Brian, the situation you describe is global, not specific to the US; typical American perspective taking credit for what you should not be taking credit for.
Patrick
Exactly.
Andrew
Oh poor typical Andrew presuming too much (again): I am talking about my context and living in my context. I don’t know the history of your homeland or their current socio-political matters. I know my own context. If the situation is global than people need to ponder how to deal with it in various contexts. As an American I have to decide how to approach it in my immediate context.
Andrew – do you actually READ the comments? I think I cannot make my position and my guilt any plainer than I already have done. The difference between us seems to be that I am prepared to admit my collusion and you seek to absolve yourself from any blame.
Ali, yes I do.
Brian’s disclaimer about not inducing guilt, followed by a sordid admission of guilt was too juicy not to deride – except that sardonian tone doesn’t convey well through text …. the value of the derision was thus lost.
Ah well.
Brian, the last time you accused me of ‘presuming too much’, I rebutted with your own words which showed my presumption was not a presumption. Accusing me of presuming too much appears to be a defence mechanism, but false.
Yes, the overt message of the post is ‘America is not the Kingdom of God’. I get that, and agree with it. ‘America IS Babylon the Great’ more than it is the ‘Kingdom of God’, what with it’s ‘intolerance’ veiled as ‘tolerance’. In the US, one appears to be fine, as long as one does stand FOR a biblical ethic. Still, you cannot disclaim the underlying (political) message of this post, what with references to slavery, and abuse of natives, as though American standard of living has only ever been at the expense of others.
In your social comments on history, I never seen you yet lament the genocides the natives were engaging against each other when ‘white-man’ arrived in N. America (and stopped), or seen you bemoan the abuses the Spanish perpetrated in the New World against not just natives but indeed other Europeans (all in the name of Imperial Catholic subjugation). I’ve not seen you give equal air-time (so-to-speak) to the fact that while the south had ‘black slaves’ the industrial north had white ones (ISBN 978-1456306120, 978-0814742969, 978-0771086700) and indeed many N. American whites themselves might have lived under bondage. I’ve also never seen you say anything about the religious persecution in Europe that lead to mass European immigration to N. America.
It is a false idea that all natives have been abused, that all white-man are guilty somewhere in their ancestry of slave ownership, or of killing natives, or that if you’re skin is not light coloured, you’ve been wronged. It is this false notion I address with critique.
Some white American’s have in their family history, wronged some Natives, or own slaves, but that is not an American trait, it is the human condition common to us all. Likewise, America enjoys the standard of living it does, for the same reason Norway, Finland, Switzerland, Germany, and Britain does (non of whom had African American Slaves) – because in it’s past it industrialized, and showed inventive genius, and the world wanted what it produced.
Get your history straight Andrew. Britain was a big player in the slave trade. My British ancestors trod on a lot of people to get us to where we are today. In many respects our past is nothing to be proud of.
No one has said that all other races are guilt free and it’s weird how you seem to think that pointing out the sins of other people lets white westerners off the hook. It doesn’t at all. We have all sinned, all fallen short and all need to repent. What my neighbour does is irrelevant – I am responsible for my actions regardless of what my neighbour gets up to.
Andrew
Obviously you are completely unfamiliar with the current state of affairs in my country. No one denies that all humans do evil, or that Europeans harmed Europeans, or that Natives peoples harmed Native peoples, or that workers in the northern United States were abused. What is different is that there has been systematic oppression over the last few hundred years against non-whites in my country. It’s plain and simple. To deny it shows your complete ignorance of the society in which I live and maybe you should be honest and admit that as a foreign commentator you know as much about the ins-and-outs of the United States as I do the UK, France, or Germany (and no, showing me that you have read some books by imbedding the ISBN numbers does not prove the opposite). If you sense that in your nation such systematic oppression has not occurred then argue that point. But don’t pretend to know something about this country.
Also, quite cute that you think you “rebutted” someone. Is that what you call proudly critiquing a point that I wasn’t making? Sad.
Ali, what history do I need to get strait? I didn’t deny Britain’s involvement in the slave trade, just as I don’t deny Britain’s leadership to end the slave trade (William Wilberforce was British, wasn’t he?). What I deny is that Britain innovated the trade in the first place, or that Anglo-Saxon Americans all share in guilt. I likewise deny that black’s themselves (or Hispanics) are completely absolved of guilt. These views I oppose are hallmarks of socialist revisionist thinking.
Anyone who see’s slavery as a white-black thing either has an axe to grind or doesn’t know the history of African slavery. Neither ignorance nor obstinance make one’s position true. Similarly, in my experience, many Americans themselves don’t know the history N. American natives in their dealing with Europeans; and assume incorrectly that it was simply whites against natives, with whites “bad” and natives “good”. Such a position is ill informed, an over simplification and mostly demonstrably false. (Anyone following the ‘War of 1812’ celebrations between Canada and the US, for example, should be able to see it was more complex than this).
Furthermore, Ali, I am off the hook whether or not my ancestors wronged others (just as you are off the hook for the sins of your ancestors), because the bible says:
[Eze 18:20] “The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.”
Therefore if God says we are responsible for OUR OWN sins and not those of our forebears, Christian’s are hypocrites if they inherit or adopt a mantle of sin from their ancestors.
Ali
You are absolutely correct and we do have a responsibility in the present to work to help people who have been wronged. In my context I benefit (as I’ve said above) from being white. It is not fair for me to sit here and pretend like every individual is an island to himself. If I have benefitted from the wrong doings of whites I am part of the system and I have a responsibility to try to show the love of Christ to those who do have have the same opportunities and privileges as I do. I appreciate your awareness.
The question I am asking myself: why waste time on someone who refuses to engage with the thrust of what is being said?
So for one last time…
You wrote: ‘America enjoys the standard of living it does, for the same reason Norway, Finland, Switzerland, Germany, and Britain does (non of whom had African American Slaves) – because in it’s past it industrialized, and showed inventive genius, and the world wanted what it produced.’
British people HAD slaves and main fortunes out of them. FACT.
Who said Britain started it off? No one made that claim. You rebutting something that no one on this blog has claimed. In any event, if you join in with a crime you become an accessory and therefore you are culpable. FACT.
No one on this blog has said that other races, including the ones you are so keen to point the finger at, are without responsibility in this matter. You are the one who is claiming this is our position and no one has claimed that at all. FACT.
Going back to my original comment, I am guilty of colluding with dubious business practices that enslave other people in countries I will probably never visit but because of the global nature of our lives I still impact. That makes me guilty of supporting the form of modern day slavery that does still exist. FACT.
Andrew – we are not responsible for what our ancestors have done in one sense but we are responsible now for attempting to put right what they so badly fouled up. If we fail to acknowledge that and walk away from those opportunities to right the wrongs not just in word but in deed then we will have to answer for those omissions. We are most definitely NOT off the hook in that respect and there is nothing hypocritical about taking responsibility for demonstrating the justice of God from a position of privilege, gained on my behalf by the abusers of other people, which is the place where I am currently standing. I benefit from the proceeds of sinful behaviour and it is only honest to acknowledge that and seek to redress the balance.
Your main response to injustice seems to be: ‘Look at them – they’re just as bad!’ Can’t say I’m very impressed with that.
Brian, no one denies we have an obligation to right-wrongs, stand against tyranny, godlessness. (This is precisely why I’m not a pacifist).
But the wrongs we all agree need to be righted are those of our own generation. How do you know you haven’t not benefited from the wrong doings of Hispanics, or other natives? How do you know you have not been injured (historically) by the wrong doings of whites, or indeed non-whites.
Stereotyping you, based on your last name “LePort”, there’s a good chance if you have French in your background, your ancestors (unless they were Acadian) have been injured because of natives (and their alliances with the British). You say you have benefited from the wrong doing of whites, but at the heart of your statement is a racist stereotype.
Oh wow, I am walking away from this conversation now. You have a sense of reality comparable to Mahmoud Ahmadinejab.
Ali, I’m not refusing to engage with the thrust of what is being said, rather I’m just not going down the rabbit hole you seem to be favouring.
The point is this, Britain (and by extension the US) inherited its slaves from where? Where did Britain have slaves? The Caribbean primarily, islands that once belonged to whom? So what? What if the US and Britain had slaves – is that why Americans are blessed now?
No, it’s a crap argument based on racist assumptions. Northern Europe has the same standard of living the US does, as does Canada and Australia, yet your rabbit hole requires the false presupposition this is so because of the abuse of slaves and natives. What natives did Norway abuse? What slaves did Canada have? How did Germany become a 1st world nation? The standard of living and benefit you seem to be saying was off of the the backs of others is larger than the your hasty generalization example of slavery.
Yes, the US had slaves, and yes so did Britain – but so what! Neither Europe nor N. America became the powers they did because of it or you would have to show how they are not the European/N. American exceptions.
Ha! America didn’t become what it became of slavery. You’re hilarious!
Brian, comparing me to Ahmadinejab is ad hominem and fallacious.
If my facts are incorrect (that slavery in N. America was inherited from the Spanish, that French power in N. America was as much destroyed by native power as it was French Catholicism, or that most whites are innocent of such guilt attributed to them ) or if my logic unsound, fine – show me to be false.
But to simply avoid the points you’re being confronted with by resorting to fallacy is disappointing. In any event, you’re correct – this debate has become too political and I will follow your lead and let it rest. We agree to disagree.
Andrew
Sometimes you can’t reason with some people. You are one of those people. You can appeal to a “logical fallacy” but you fail to note that I am not making a statement about the logic of your argument anymore (that is useless with you). I am making a statement about you. Your argument is not worth engaging since you either have missed the point made by Ali and myself or you are ignoring it. If you missed it then you aren’t going to get it if I go round and round with you. If you are ignoring it then I should ignore your’s.
Brian, we indeed have differences of opinion – but that does not mean we cannot reason together. You and I both (apparently) respect the authority of the bible (albeit in slightly different ways), and you and I both share a common system of logic.
That we ‘disagree’ means only that we do not share a common set of presuppositions. If you were not able to ‘reason with me’ we would not have spent time considering the others’ perspective presenting counter arguments. However, don’t rationalize your fallacy.
My sense of ‘reality’ could be similar to Ahmadinejab (as you accuse), and yours Karl Marx – but that doesn’t mean what I say is not true. The merits or defects of the arguer have absolutely no bearing on the truth or falsity of their position. At the heart of our disagreement, is my refusal to accept a Marxist conflict theory paradigm of N. American colonization (seeing historically social, political and material inequality between Europeans and natives, simply because such an inequality now appears to exists). I don’t see socialist inequality everywhere I look.
I doubt you even recognize this Marxist element to your position, but I don’t oppose it because it was Marx who first suggested it, rather I oppose it because I believe it is false.
Andrew
Oh yes, it has to do with Marx! That’s it. I am imposing a narrative on the United States that doesn’t exist. Slavery doesn’t matter and it didn’t impact the trajectory of our nation’s history. Racism isn’t real. Economic injustices are an illusion. You’ve risen above all that because your free of some “Marxist element.” Ha! You’re a funny, odd man.
You’re attributing to me things I did not say.
Yes, I would argue that the narrative you present on American History has been influenced by Marx, whether or not you would claim that. (I think you’d be hard pressed to deny the influence Marx’s ‘conflict theory’ has had on your perspective – but so what? Marx presents a plausible way of understanding history.)
That I think it false, does not mean I believe Racism isn’t real, or that Slavery doesn’t matter. I wouldn’t even say it didn’t impact the trajectory of your nations history. In fact I would say the opposite, confronting slavery is what has impacted your nations trajectory; every civilization that enslaves others falls quickly. How long after your civil war did the US take to become a world power?
Likewise, I don’t believe economic injustices are an illusion, but I don’t hold they are history’s engine as much as Marx says they are (as a Brit, has he never himself read about the Glorious Revolution of 1688?). I believe Marx’s view is an over simplification, and often exaggerated for political purposes.
Brian, I see injustice just as you do – even if not in a Marxist sense.
I am glad you see injustices through a pure lens not corrupted by Marx. I’d like to chat more with you, but I need to go to the library to read Marx’s Communist Manifesto so that I can know why I believe what I believe. Good day.
It’s dull, and poorly written. I’d advise you not to waste your time, but hey – read it and decide for yourself.
Besides, if the sheer number of reviews you managed to pump out on your blog are any indication of your capacity to read, you’d finish it in no time.
As a white American I’d agree that many African Americans have inherited a socio-psycho disadvantage. WIlly Lynch taught slave owners to break the will of their slaves by making sons have sex with their moms and all kinds of messed up things. The issue of skin color seems to me to be a distant second to sub-culture. African American sub-culture (stereotypically speaking) has seemed to inherit psychological fall-out from 300 years of slavery – or so some of my black friends tell me.
Truth is, I came from a harder situation than many of my black friends. To boot there aren’t many programs that are tailored to my situations because my skin color or gender doesn’t suggest I’ve come from hard knocks. But even then, I’ve been successful. Growing up around wealthy, stable white families further rubbed in my face the disparity of my situations. Yet, growing up around white culture also gave me a lot of advantages. Whites have been blessed to not carry the generational fall-out from 300 years of being told we were nothing but property that could be dehumanized. I’ve seen similar effects on my black friends who grew up in “white” culture, so to speak.
Though, that doesn’t completely absolve the color factor, it seems. I know some of my black friends, who even grew up in the burbs around white people, have expressed to me the feeling of standing out or subtle racist comments that people make, maybe sometimes unintentionally, that further underscores how they stand out. I’m sure it’s more complex than that. I don’t understand it, being white.
Also some of my black friends tell me there isn’t a lot we, as white people, can do to correct this injustice outside of being willing to surrender power and get out of the way – at least on an individual basis.
Yet, Brian and Ali, with all of that, Andrew has some very good points – as do the two of you. Most of the people that would correct me to say “african american” are white. I’ve had black friends straight up tell me, “Stop calling my race that. Its sounds patronizing. Just call me black.” I’m sure it differs person-to-person.
In any case, there is a lot of deception on the “progressive” left about civil rights, how things used to be, where we’re heading as a culture, and the idea that a systemic fix is possible without fixing the hearts of individual people. Much of the fallacy comes from the enlightenment’s invention of the “dark ages” and vilifying anything that came before them – outside of greek/roman culture. Also that same era espoused massive individualist thinking, which, ironically, is hidden in the idea of fixing a system. The left would rather put some sort of program or system in place that appeased their consciences without having to get their hands dirty. But community and relationship is key to any fix. We’re implicated not merely with out vote but with our time and life choices. (not saying either of you two don’t think that)
I think we forget that slavery was ended in the west 1000 years before it started again. That doesn’t sound like a clean progressive arch. And things like women’s suffrage had much more to do with a shift from a family-centric, agrarian economy to an individualist, consumer (late industrial) economy than our culture evolving to some more advanced way of thinking.
Which, lastly, comes full circle to support Brian and Ali’s point about systems. The right often forgets that systems affect the individual – even the individual’s worldview or ability to change it. When’s the last time any of us Americans prayed daily with our church like Jesus instructed in the Lord’s prayer? “This then is how you should pray, “OUR Father… give US THIS DAY OUR DAILY bread…” Probably not for a while because, at least partly, our car-centric society encourages living miles away from each other so it’s totally impractical. Unlike the past where a church would spend 24/7 in walking distance. Talking about having to forgive your brother 490 times.
And yet, when the evangelical revivals broke out in Whales, so the story goes, they shut down the police department because they didn’t need them any more. Hearts were changed and crime dissipated. We must address both.
OK
Justin
Well said, I agree that there must be a balance between fixing systems and praying that God change individual hearts. No doubt on an individual basis some whites may have some disadvantages to some blacks or Latinos. I think these exceptions prove the rule though.
After reading through these comments, a few thoughts:
Andrew T. is superior at comments which address issues.
Brian is superior at sarcastic comments.
Ali and Brian seem to be missing Andrew’s point that America isn’t great because of slavery, so the line, “America the beautiful, built on biblical principles, and the backs of slaves” may not be entirely accurate. Or in Andrew’s words: “It is a false idea that all natives have been abused, that all white-man are guilty somewhere in their ancestry of slave ownership, or of killing natives, or that if you’re skin is not light coloured, you’ve been wronged. It is this false notion I address with critique.”
I’m not saying I agree with Andrew (I just don’t know enough facts, though it seems like he is reasonably knowledgeable).
Anyway, thanks for the entertaining read!
Dan
Thank you for your appreciation of my sarcasm, though I wouldn’t call revisionist history or pretending to know something about another country (when he doesn’t) addressing issues. It is not addressing issues to pretend that they do not exist. It is not addressing issues to pretend that systematic evils are not a reality or that they can be chalked up to Marxism. It is not addressing issues to act as if we are all an island to ourselves disconnected from generations prior. It is not addressing issues to continue to loudly insist these things over and over. In fact, these are the types of comments that deserve nothing better than a sarcastic nod and grin.
Andrew, Brian, Ali
I say, what is the reality we live in? If you can truly answer that, the need for bickering would stop. Because no amount of spouting theory will relieve the guilt felt, rectify the injustice shown (historically and presently), or prove who is to blame. For if we look hard enough I am sure we can find white collar to racist to genocidal crime smeared upon the enigmas of all nations or the faces of all individuals. Is that not what we are as sinners: criminals?
That being such, what are the facts. America had slaves. The British Empire had slaves. Native Americans enslaved each other (which is not by any stretch of the rational mind an “extra” strike against them or “more” hideous an act, for there is no sin greater than another in the eyes of God). Cambodia and Thailand have some of the highest numbers of sex slaves in the world. Blah, blah, blah. The list continues, and really it can be simplified by saying: we all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
What do we do with that information? Andrew, it seems to me (correct me if I’m wrong) that your understanding is: My hands are clean. Okay. Ali, your understanding (again, please correct me): I am responsible, because I still to this day take advantage of slavery (but in a more indirect way). Brian, you seem to be saying: We are all responsible to right the injustice that has been rampant throughout history, and white people especially because we own something called “white privilege” in the United States (other places, I am sure have this, but it would be different than in the U.S., i.e. biblical relationship between Jews vs. Samaritans).
Here is my take (feel free to disagree, I could care less): how can I love the people around me? How can I take whatever situation I am in, regardless of the surrounding demographic, and be the best person I can be? Which means in some instances, being mindful of history. I do not have to feel guilt for what my ancestors did, but I do believe I must show respect to the pain felt by many others. I do not hold myself responsible, I think that is ridiculous. But it would be pride that stopped me from apologizing.
In the U.S., I am mostly confronted by black vs. white racism. Mostly. That doesn’t mean Asians do not feel racist pressure, Latinos, whites (“reverse” racism is real)… so I speak to my relationships with African-Americans.
Most if not all of my black friends DO NOT hold me contempt for slavery. Most, if not all, are sensitive towards racism. Why is that? Not, in my understanding, because their ancestors were slaves, but because prejudice lived on through slavery. I have held, by no fault of my own, privilege. They have felt that prejudice. I can not understand or pretend to understand my friends’ position because I have not experienced it. So I must take my friends’ word, in most cases.
But I believe it is white guilt that says, if a black person says its racist, it must be racist. I do not agree with that. Regardless of race or color, people are subject to overreaction, assumption, etc. The color of their skin does not make them an expert, because it is the nature of being human that is faulty.
And here it comes full circle. If we, and that encompasses all races and skin tones, take each person at face value, as a human being, broken and in need of love and forgiveness, we can begin to know that person, not absent of color, but full of history. Respect, love, peace, and forgiveness follows.
Who gives a shit if that’s Marxist or not.
Justin
Well said.
Dan
Also, I would add that I don’t think it is worthwhile debating Andrew over matters related specifically to the United States. He is from the UK and I admit that I don’t know much about the UK. It would be odd for me to tell him all about his country. Does Andrew know how SB1070 has impacted Latinos in Arizona? Does he know about our prison industrial complex or that Blacks make up 45% of inmates while making up only 11% of our population? Does he know about food deserts in low incomes areas of many of our cities? I don’t think going on and on with someone who doesn’t understand our context is wise and I don’t think contextless statements about Marx count for addressing issues.
Taylor
In principle I agree, very much so. That said, I don’t think we are pure individuals disconnected from greater systems. Sure, I can be very kind to a young black man, be his friend, et cetera, but if we do not ask questions about incarceration, police profiling, the “war on drugs,” and other social matters that contribute to this systematic injustice. So sure, we must work this out on an individual level, but we are more than individuals, we are communities, societies, and so forth.
But do you not think our actions as individuals will or can accomplish change at the communal level, which in turn affects the societal to national to global levels? Through my life (as a filmmaker, poet, writer, journalist) hopefully I can spark change. I guess, I believe in natural change. Because for change to take place at any group level, it must do so individually, regardless. And in my experience, people respond to love and respect much better than academia or statistics. For me, theorizing never took action like action did. And love is action. Respect is action. I agree, we must change communities and societies and nations. But it would be hubris indeed to tackle them all with more than our capacity. A favorite saying of mine is: It is about relationship, not religion. It applies to Christianity. But it also applies to life. There is no substitute for a relationship. Foster a relationship, and hopefully love and peace will abound. Enough of that, and voila! …. I am not an optimist nor a surrealist. I have been accused many times of being a pessimist, because there will never be a voila moment. But I do think I can do my part at the micro level. Whether or not that is under-utilizing my potential, I am happy to continue. Because if enough individuals are changed, a community is changed. I can only hope others share my sentiments and we can meet in the middle.
Taylor
I would agree that the primary means for change is at the individual level through relationships. That said, as Dr. King showed, as the Hebrew prophets have shown, and so forth and so on, sometimes it takes a loud prophetic voice as well. I wouldn’t present it as an either/or, but a both/and.
Brian – I have never lived in the UK, and I don’t need to be from the US to understand US issues.
Andrew
You may be able to understand as a superficial level, but it is very apparent from your comments that this is insufficient. It is impossible to have this discussion with you because you don’t live in our matrix. You don’t see how our systems function. You can’t experience the negative after effects of some of the dark parts of our history. You can present much theory, refer to Marx, suggest that individualism trumps corporate responsibility, and present a very “book-ish” knowledge, but I live here.
Perhaps – but the converse might also be true – American preoccupation with American history might also bind you to a superficial understanding what’s happening now, in the world – today. White people don’t have a monopoly on sin. American slavery is not the worst thing that’s happened in the last 300 years. If I had to choose, I’d say Mao Tse-tung’s extermination of 120 million Chinese would be high on the list, perhaps with Stalin’s extermination of 20 milllion (or so) Ukrainian, Belorussian, Russian minorities.
Did you know that North America’s ethnic population percentages in prisons roughly match Interpol percentages for global crime rates? Are American (racist) attitudes responsible? If American ethnic prison populations match global crime rates ethnically, could it not be that maybe just maybe racist American’s are NOT to blame? Could it be there’s a cultural or ethnic component to crime? Why must American’s take credit for everything?
Besides, why focus on such things when in the bigger pool of global injustice, American prisons aren’t even on the Radar. You say my understanding may be superficial – and maybe it is. I say (and said at the beginning) yours is myopic. There is little sense in being ‘penny wise, but pound stupid’.
American history is a refection of a much larger history. American history is a reflection of the history of fallen man. In that history – race is a footnote (amongst many others).
Andrew
I have said over and over that I don’t speak for what is happening on a global scale. Whether or not our prison rates match others is inconsequential. My context is unique. I am aware of it. I don’t think what happens in the United States dictates what happens in the whole world. Again, I am speaking as an American about the American situation. This spoken word piece was by an American addressing the American situation. You are the outsider trying to tell insiders how to understand our country and how our society functions. So am I the arrogant American or is someone else presuming to know way too much?
For you American prisons and racism in America may not matter. That is fine. Its none of your business. Move on.
BTW, dope poem Micah. I think that kinda got lost in the shuffle.
How about we appreciate it as art, even if we must disagree on whether or not its historically accurate.